Discussion:
insert umlaut
Stefan Vollmar
2010-06-07 08:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I am using an elisp insert statement to put text into a newly generated buffer, this text contains a German Umlaut. The text is displayed correctly in my .emacs-file, I also have a (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) statement.

With Emacs 23.2 (Windows) the Umlaut is not displayed correctly (in the newly generated buffer), with Aquamacs 2.0 it works just fine. With both Emacsen, the .emacs-file yields "utf-8-unix" in the modeline and "utf-8" for the newly created buffer.

Is this a bug or is it a coincidence that this works in Aquamacs?

Many thanks in advance.
Warm regards,
Stefan
--
Dr. Stefan Vollmar, Dipl.-Phys.
Head of IT group
Max-Planck-Institut für neurologische Forschung
Gleuelerstr. 50, 50931 Köln, Germany
Tel.: +49-221-4726-213 FAX +49-221-4726-298
Tel.: +49-221-478-5713 Mobile: 0160-93874279
Email: ***@nf.mpg.de http://www.nf.mpg.de
Stefan Vollmar
2010-06-07 13:34:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

if I use

(insert (string-make-multibyte "Umlaut: ü"))

it now works with Emacs 23.2 (Windows). However, the question remains why "string-make-multibyte" is apparently not required when using Aquamacs 2.0 (Emacs 23.2) and with Emacs 23.1 (Ubuntu). The Windows version assumes a different encoding for the insert text?

Warm regards,
Stefan
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Hi,
I am using an elisp insert statement to put text into a newly generated buffer, this text contains a German Umlaut. The text is displayed correctly in my .emacs-file, I also have a (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) statement.
With Emacs 23.2 (Windows) the Umlaut is not displayed correctly (in the newly generated buffer), with Aquamacs 2.0 it works just fine. With both Emacsen, the .emacs-file yields "utf-8-unix" in the modeline and "utf-8" for the newly created buffer.
Is this a bug or is it a coincidence that this works in Aquamacs?
Many thanks in advance.
Warm regards,
Stefan
--
Dr. Stefan Vollmar, Dipl.-Phys.
Head of IT group
Max-Planck-Institut für neurologische Forschung
Gleuelerstr. 50, 50931 Köln, Germany
Tel.: +49-221-4726-213 FAX +49-221-4726-298
Tel.: +49-221-478-5713 Mobile: 0160-93874279
Email: ***@nf.mpg.de http://www.nf.mpg.de
Kevin Rodgers
2010-06-09 03:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Vollmar
I am using an elisp insert statement to put text into a newly
generated buffer, this text contains a German Umlaut. The text is
displayed correctly in my .emacs-file, I also have a
(prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) statement.
Please show us the insert statement.

When visiting ~/.emacs, what does `C-h C RET' display?

When point is before the umlaut character in the insert statement,
what does `C-u C-x =' display?
Post by Stefan Vollmar
With Emacs 23.2 (Windows) the Umlaut is not displayed correctly (in
the newly generated buffer), with Aquamacs 2.0 it works just
fine. With both Emacsen, the .emacs-file yields "utf-8-unix" in the
modeline and "utf-8" for the newly created buffer.
Is this a bug or is it a coincidence that this works in Aquamacs?
There are a lot of variables to account for between the 2 platforms and
the 2 Emacs versions.
--
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA
Stefan Vollmar
2010-06-09 06:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Please show us the insert statement.
(insert "Umlaut: Ì")
Post by Kevin Rodgers
When visiting ~/.emacs, what does `C-h C RET' display?
* Emacs 23.2.1 Windows Server Enterprise 2007 (German)

Coding system for saving this buffer:
- -- undecided-dos (alias: dos)
[...]
Coding system for terminal output:
nil
Coding system for inter-client cut and paste:
U -- utf-16le-dos
Defaults for subprocess I/O:
decoding: U -- utf-8-dos (alias: mule-utf-8-dos)
[...]
Process I/O "[pP][lL][iI][nN][kK]" (undecided-dos . undecided-dos)
"[cC][mM][dD][pP][rR][oO][xX][yY]"
(undecided-dos . undecided-dos)


* Aquamacs 2.0 Mac (English)

Coding system for saving this buffer:
- -- undecided-unix (alias: unix)
[...]
Coding system for terminal output:
U -- utf-8-unix (alias: mule-utf-8-unix)
Coding system for inter-client cut and paste:
nil
Defaults for subprocess I/O:
decoding: U -- utf-8-unix (alias: mule-utf-8-unix)
[...]
Process I/O nothing specified
Post by Kevin Rodgers
When point is before the umlaut character in the insert statement,
what does `C-u C-x =' display?
* Emacs 23.2.1 Windows Server Enterprise 2007 (German)

character: Ì (252, #o374, #xfc)
preferred charset: iso-8859-1 (Latin-1 (ISO/IEC 8859-1))
code point: 0xFC
syntax: w which means: word
category: .:Base, c:Chinese, j:Japanese, l:Latin
buffer code: #xC3 #xBC
file code: #xC3 #xBC (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
display: by this font (glyph code)
uniscribe:-outline-Courier New-normal-normal-normal-mono-13-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 (#x81)

Character code properties: customize what to show
name: LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS
old-name: LATIN SMALL LETTER U DIAERESIS
general-category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase)
decomposition: (117 776) ('u' '̈')

There are text properties here:
face font-lock-string-face
fontified t


The Aquamacs output is identical, except for the line that says "uniscribe" on Windows, it says:

nil:-apple-Monaco-medium-normal-normal-*-12-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1 (#x81)
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Post by Stefan Vollmar
With Emacs 23.2 (Windows) the Umlaut is not displayed correctly (in
the newly generated buffer), with Aquamacs 2.0 it works just
fine. With both Emacsen, the .emacs-file yields "utf-8-unix" in the
modeline and "utf-8" for the newly created buffer.
Is this a bug or is it a coincidence that this works in Aquamacs?
There are a lot of variables to account for between the 2 platforms and
the 2 Emacs versions.
And so it seems. The problem can probably be explained by the above the differences in the default coding systems, interesting.

Warm regards,
Stefan
--
Dr. Stefan Vollmar, Dipl.-Phys.
Head of IT group
Max-Planck-Institut fÃŒr neurologische Forschung
Gleuelerstr. 50, 50931 Köln, Germany
Tel.: +49-221-4726-213 FAX +49-221-4726-298
Tel.: +49-221-478-5713 Mobile: 0160-93874279
Email: ***@nf.mpg.de http://www.nf.mpg.de
Kevin Rodgers
2010-06-12 06:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Please show us the insert statement.
(insert "Umlaut: ü")
What happens if you use a coding-system independent representation
in your ~/.emacs:

(insert "Umlaut: \u00FC")
--
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA
Stefan Vollmar
2010-06-12 09:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Please show us the insert statement.
(insert "Umlaut: ü")
What happens if you use a coding-system independent representation
(insert "Umlaut: \u00FC")
It works with the \u00FC representation, so this is another solution in addition to using (string-make-multibyte "ü"), probably very similar in effect.

However, here is an interesting observation: that insert statement is used in a site-lisp/site-start.el file. It produces the mentioned problem when Emacs is started. If, in contrast, Emacs is running and I do a load-file of site-start.el then,

(insert "Umlaut: ü")

will work exactly as observed on recent versions of Emacs on MacOS and Linux.

Warm regards,
Stefan
--
Dr. Stefan Vollmar, Dipl.-Phys.
Head of IT group
Max-Planck-Institut für neurologische Forschung
Gleuelerstr. 50, 50931 Köln, Germany
Tel.: +49-221-4726-213 FAX +49-221-4726-298
Tel.: +49-221-478-5713 Mobile: 0160-93874279
Email: ***@nf.mpg.de http://www.nf.mpg.de
t***@tuxteam.de
2010-06-13 04:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Please show us the insert statement.
(insert "Umlaut: ü")
What happens if you use a coding-system independent representation
(insert "Umlaut: \u00FC")
It works with the \u00FC representation, so this is another solution in addition to using (string-make-multibyte "ü"), probably very similar in effect.
What is the coding system of the elisp file itself (i.e. where the source of this
statement lives)?

Regards
- -- tomás
Stefan Vollmar
2010-06-13 21:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Dear Tomas,
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Dear Kevin,
Post by Kevin Rodgers
Please show us the insert statement.
(insert "Umlaut: Ì")
What happens if you use a coding-system independent representation
(insert "Umlaut: \u00FC")
It works with the \u00FC representation, so this is another solution in addition to using (string-make-multibyte "Ì"), probably very similar in effect.
What is the coding system of the elisp file itself (i.e. where the source of this
statement lives)?
Date: 12. Juni 2010 11:55:49 MESZ
Subject: Re: insert umlaut
[...]
However, here is an interesting observation: that insert statement is used in a site-lisp/site-start.el file. It produces the mentioned problem when Emacs is started. If, in contrast, Emacs is running and I do a load-file of site-start.el then,
(insert "Umlaut: Ì")
will work exactly as observed on recent versions of Emacs on MacOS and Linux.
Date: 9. Juni 2010 08:01:48 MESZ
Subject: Re: insert umlaut
Dear Kevin,
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Please show us the insert statement.
(insert "Umlaut: Ì")
Post by Stefan Vollmar
When visiting ~/.emacs, what does `C-h C RET' display?
* Emacs 23.2.1 Windows Server Enterprise 2007 (German)
- -- undecided-dos (alias: dos)
[...]
nil
U -- utf-16le-dos
decoding: U -- utf-8-dos (alias: mule-utf-8-dos)
[...]
Process I/O "[pP][lL][iI][nN][kK]" (undecided-dos . undecided-dos)
"[cC][mM][dD][pP][rR][oO][xX][yY]"
(undecided-dos . undecided-dos)
* Aquamacs 2.0 Mac (English)
- -- undecided-unix (alias: unix)
[...]
U -- utf-8-unix (alias: mule-utf-8-unix)
nil
decoding: U -- utf-8-unix (alias: mule-utf-8-unix)
[...]
Process I/O nothing specified
Post by Stefan Vollmar
When point is before the umlaut character in the insert statement,
what does `C-u C-x =' display?
* Emacs 23.2.1 Windows Server Enterprise 2007 (German)
character: Ì (252, #o374, #xfc)
preferred charset: iso-8859-1 (Latin-1 (ISO/IEC 8859-1))
code point: 0xFC
syntax: w which means: word
category: .:Base, c:Chinese, j:Japanese, l:Latin
buffer code: #xC3 #xBC
file code: #xC3 #xBC (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
display: by this font (glyph code)
uniscribe:-outline-Courier New-normal-normal-normal-mono-13-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 (#x81)
Character code properties: customize what to show
name: LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS
old-name: LATIN SMALL LETTER U DIAERESIS
general-category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase)
decomposition: (117 776) ('u' '̈')
face font-lock-string-face
fontified t
nil:-apple-Monaco-medium-normal-normal-*-12-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1 (#x81)
Post by Stefan Vollmar
Post by Kevin Rodgers
With Emacs 23.2 (Windows) the Umlaut is not displayed correctly (in
the newly generated buffer), with Aquamacs 2.0 it works just
fine. With both Emacsen, the .emacs-file yields "utf-8-unix" in the
modeline and "utf-8" for the newly created buffer.
Is this a bug or is it a coincidence that this works in Aquamacs?
There are a lot of variables to account for between the 2 platforms and
the 2 Emacs versions.
And so it seems. The problem can probably be explained by the above the differences in the default coding systems, interesting.
Warm regards,
Stefan
--
Dr. Stefan Vollmar, Dipl.-Phys.
Head of IT group
Max-Planck-Institut fÃŒr neurologische Forschung
Gleuelerstr. 50, 50931 Köln, Germany
Tel.: +49-221-4726-213 FAX +49-221-4726-298
Tel.: +49-221-478-5713 Mobile: 0160-93874279
Email: ***@nf.mpg.de http://www.nf.mpg.de
--
Dr. Stefan Vollmar, Dipl.-Phys.
Head of IT group
Max-Planck-Institut fÃŒr neurologische Forschung
Gleuelerstr. 50, 50931 Köln, Germany
Tel.: +49-221-4726-213 FAX +49-221-4726-298
Tel.: +49-221-478-5713 Mobile: 0160-93874279
Email: ***@nf.mpg.de http://www.nf.mpg.de
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